Sponsor |  Ewtn2000 | Feb 8, 5:21pm | | Martin Luther was a monk. He loved Christ but strayed on his beliefs of "nothing that is unclean" can be with Christ. Yet he push to others that you may be morally corrupt, and just because you believe, there is nothing that needs to be done but believe. Doesnt the soul need to be cleansed? |
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|  fireforchrist | Feb 11, 8:26am | | You have a valid point and I agree, the soul does need to be cleansed. I did not think he left that belief he just said that the way you get cleansed is different? |
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Sponsor | | Ewtn2000 | Feb 13, 8:20pm | | Well he strayed enough from that belief to change the actual words of the gospel. That is a major no-no. |
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| | fireforchrist | Feb 14, 6:12am | | What you are saying is one reason I have for another reformation because the evangelical church has strayed from the truth that God wants holy people and not just people who say "Lord Lord." |
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Sponsor | | lesoldham | Feb 16, 5:15pm | God has holy people.
Exd 3:5
Then He said, "Do not come near here; remove your sandals from your
feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground."
If the dirt where God was was holy then the clay out of which we are made is holy if He dwells in us. The problem is we don't act holy. We don't act holy because we don't believe Jesus completed work is sufficient to make us holy.
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| | fireforchrist | Feb 17, 6:34am | | We do not believe this? I do. I do not like the idea of acting Holy because I did it for so long. I think I would prefer to say live Holy as opposed to act Holy. I live without any awareness of sin or guilt. I can not work up some kind of guilt feeling though I tried because I thought it was not right to be without guilt. (I lived so long as a "christian" with it). I do however feel guilt when I do sin. I used to have an intellectual understanding of Jesus' completed work to make me Holy, but now I know that it has to be a spiritual reality or you just do not have it. I think there is a word for this -- sanctified. |
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Sponsor | | lesoldham | Feb 17, 4:28pm | I said "act" to distinguish between our outward actions and our inward state of being. We are holy and we have received the gift of righteousness. This is who we are. But sometimes our actions speak something different. When we act out of our old unregenerate nature then we are not acting out of who we really are. If our actions are generated out of a full understanding (spiritual as you say) of who we are then our actions are also holy or "perfect" as mentioned here
Mat 5:44 "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, Mat 5:45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes
His sun to rise on {the} evil and {the} good, and sends rain on {the}
righteous and {the} unrighteous.
Mat 5:46 "For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
Mat 5:47 "If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing {than others?} Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
Mat 5:48 "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
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| | fireforchrist | Feb 17, 6:52pm | | I suspect we agree but do not know it. |
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Apologetics → Discussion