Sponsor |  lesoldham | Oct 4, 2007 9:17pm | | I don't think civil disobedience would be advisable for such modern day issues such as abortion, creationism, or other "Christian" political issues. These things are not about spreading the good news but about maintaining traditional values. |
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Sponsor | | Ewtn2000 | Oct 8, 2007 9:40am | | Which explains why 25% of our children are being killed every day... |
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|  AmataPingveno | Oct 19, 2007 9:18pm | | It is written that, 'Christians are to avoid *the appearance* of doing evil'. I'm paraphrasing. I'm not good with the chapter and verse number thing. I believe in Acts a slave was told to return to his master. Also the Christians refused to join the Judeans in the ill-fated rebellion (the First Jewish-Roman War) Some scholars believe this lead tension between the Judeans and Christians because thus leading to the final schism between Judaism and Christianity. Christians had their own autonomous communities prior to the Faith being legalised by Constantine. As a result, some Christians decided to to found new Christian communities in remote locations. This seems to have lead to a Christian monastic movement (but there had been Christian monks long before then). |
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Sponsor | | Ewtn2000 | Oct 22, 2007 7:35am | Christian are to avoid doing evil, not just the appearance.
As for the final schism, I think one thinking that Jesus was God was the final schism and not refusing to fight. |
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| | AmataPingveno | Oct 22, 2007 1:55pm | 1 Thessalonians 5:22
"Abstain from all appearance of evil." KJV
"From all appearance of evil refrain yourselves." Douay-Rheims
"Ab omni specie mala abstinete vos." Vulgate
So at least according to the Vulgate we are to *not only* abstain from evil but even the appearance that we are doing evil. I'm not sure if the Byzantine Majority Text implies this. |
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Sponsor | | usmjam | Oct 22, 2007 2:24pm | 11) Lesoldham, I must disagree. The very issues of morality, on which "maintaining traditional values" is based, has everything to do with spreading the good news of the gospel. Without the rock solid truths of God, man is left to come up with his own morality. Traditions change, and so would the ideas of what is moral, if it were left up to subjectivity without the gospel.
12) "Which explains why 25% of our children are being killed every day..."
I'm not understanding. If you mean that abortion is costing us that many of our children, you are correct. But that is due to the mistaken ideas of society that abortion is not murder. That is a huge huge change seen within our lifetime. That was due in large part because we Christians neglected the command of Jesus to spread the gospel to the ends of the earth and to maintain his commands within our homes and communities, as I refer to in the previous paragraph..
Those going for termination of their unborn babies, thus far, are doing so willingly. As far as we know, forced abortion has not yet reached America, I do emphasize not yet. Those who submit to abortions are not submitting to governmental authorities. They are submitting to their selfishness, lusts, lack of morals, and generally to sin. But that is not the same as submitting to government. |
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| | AmataPingveno | Oct 22, 2007 2:42pm | "As far as we know, forced abortion has not yet reached America"
That is not completely accurate. boyfriends often coerce their girlfriends into having abortions and there is a social stigma associated with poor people (especial sing women) having babies. People (both liberal and conservative) get down on welfare mothers yet wonder why there are so many abortions. |
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Sponsor | | Ewtn2000 | Oct 22, 2007 4:04pm | #15,
So at least according to the Vulgate we are to *not only* abstain from evil but even the appearance that we are doing evil. I'm not sure if the Byzantine Majority Text implies this. agreed. Yet that was not the way it was worded b4.
# 16 My thoughts were to the prior post (#15) where he says
I don't think civil disobedience would be advisable for such modern day issues such as abortion, creationism, or other "Christian" political issues. These things are not about spreading the good news but about maintaining traditional values.
Abortion is a modern day issue that has spread through out the world. Not doing anything about it has allowed this to hit 3rd world countries. |
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| | AmataPingveno | Oct 23, 2007 12:11am | Sorry. My bad. What I meant is that not only are we not supposed do evil but we shouldn't do things which might be misconstrued as evil. We've got some silly laws in this country but we shouldn't go around breaking laws just because they're silly, lest our enemies say we Christians are 'lawless'.
As to abortion, one problem I see is that we tell women to give up their baby for adoption. Yet our adoption system is so screwy that one often has to travel to far away lands to adopt children. Also we need to provide financial resources for mothers who wish to have their babies. I must say that I've seen some wonderful acts of charity (at least in my town) on behalf of the churches. I would like to see our government step up to the plate and start looking at ways of improving our economy so that people can actually afford to take care of their children. We must put our nation's children first. We also need to get rid of the marriage penalty laws.
At the same time there is commonly believed myth that the world is overpopulated. In reality we are not making efficient use of our planet's resources. Through recycling, cooperation, and human ingenuity there is plenty of room here on this planet. However, in third world countries, a child is an extra mouth to feed. Certain economic policies associated with globalisation has made plenty of people poorer. People are leaving the farms and moving to cities. Again, economic policies should encourage people to have children. |
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Sponsor | | lesoldham | Oct 23, 2007 8:59pm | | 16 usmjam, I agree with your sentiment, I just don't think civil disobedience is justified over those issues, especially where there is a chance of violence. Standing up for ones values is one thing, breaking the civil laws is another. |
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Apologetics → Discussion