|  fireforchrist | Sep 14, 2007 6:51pm | The Way That Leads to Life.
I wish this post to be only about the way that leads to life, and what Jesus wanted us to understand concerning this topic. I wish to have mostly the Bible as the source, and Bible related sources.
Mat. 7:13-14 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." NASB
What is this "gate" and why is this "way" narrow?
I wish this dialog to be dominated by humility because
1 Corinthians 1:27-29 ...God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, 28 and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, 29 so that no man may boast before God.
Those who "know how to be saved" do not boast.... |
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Sponsor |  lesoldham | Sep 14, 2007 9:09pm | Considering the context of Matthew 7 the metaphorical meaning of "way" seems to be the best interpretation here. The context is a warning against hypocracy and the verses both before and after Matt 7:13-14 are about hypocritical behavior.
a) a way
1) a travelled way, road
b) a travellers way, journey, travelling
2) metaph.
a) a course of conduct
b) a way (i.e. manner) of thinking, feeling, deciding
At first the sayings of Jesus "I am the way, the truth and the life" or "I am the door..." (both from the book of John I think) seem appropriate, but the context is about hypocracy. Therefore "the way" here probably means the manner of thinking or conducting oneself that avoids hypocracy. The difficulty (or narrowness) of this path is obvious.
This is not a verse I would have thought would belong with the subject "The Simple Gospel" but perhaps you have an insight that eludes me.
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| | fireforchrist | Sep 15, 2007 12:07pm | I have never considered this passage to be talking about anything but salvation. My interpretation of the verses after 14 is that Jesus is telling us how we can know someone is a "Christian" or a fake. I do not discount your interpretation but I am not convinced that it is what Jesus intended to say. I am willing to try to understand what you are saying.
I have some questions I would like answered
You do not see how Mat. 7:13,14 relates to the simple gospel I can understand what you are saying, so I ask you, what is the simple gospel and why is it simple? |
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Sponsor | | lesoldham | Sep 15, 2007 1:59pm | These pairs of verses bracket sections about hypocracy. The theme is false behavior and false attitudes which amount to hypocracy. The audiance is the common Jewish population not someone who has any idea about salvation as a Christian would describe it.
Mat 6:1 "Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by themMat 6:5 "When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites
Mat 6:7 "And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the
Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many
words. Mat 6:8 "So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.
Mat 6:16 "Whenever you fast, do not put on a gloomy face as the hypocrites
Mat 7:1 "Do not judge so that you will not be judged.Mat 7:5 "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye
Mat 7:11 "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children,
how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to
those who ask Him! Mat 7:12 "In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
Mat 7:15 "Beware of the false prophets
Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of
heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven {will
enter.} Mat 7:22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' Mat 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.
To be frank, the beatitudes set a standard that no one could keep. They
"raise the bar" of the Law if you will. Thus making it impossible, for
anyone who heard them in Christs day, to think that salvation was
possible by human effort and thus the beatitudes point to the need for
a savior.
This is what I would think is the simple gospel.
Rom 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus {as} Lord, and believe in
your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
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| | fireforchrist | Sep 15, 2007 4:22pm | Listen to this translation
JNTP (Jewish New Testament Publications)
Romans 10:8,9-10
10:8b that is the word about trust which we proclaim, namely, 9 that if you acknowledge publicly with your mouth that Yeshua is Lord and trust in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be delivered. For with the heart one goes on trusting and thus continues toward righteousness, while with the mouth one keeps on making public acknowledgment and thus continues toward deliverance. |
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|  3DJelly | Sep 18, 2007 5:28pm | | "Believe" seems to be a key word here. What do you guys think that means? I personally do not think that it is just a simple switch of opinion. |
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Sponsor | | Ewtn2000 | Sep 22, 2007 12:11pm | Well, I think that the "way" is more then just believing in Christ. I think Matthew is talking about Christians in general and that there are two kinds. Those who believe in Christ (know that He is the Son of God and God Himself) yet fail to fully live by His word. They believe, but don't take the Word deep into their life and live it. The others are those who do believe in Jesus as for who He is and Live the Word. They take and form their life to go fully in God's direction.
Satan believes in Jesus, yet his pride keeps him from being saved... |
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| | fireforchrist | Sep 23, 2007 7:12am | Not everyone who confesses Lord {as} Lord and believes that God raised him from the dead will be saved?
Is not this a contradiction between Romans 10:9 and Matthew 7?
Matthew 7:
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 "Many will say to Me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, `I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' |
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| | 3DJelly | Sep 23, 2007 5:04pm | Matthew 7 certainly does seem to refer to those who "confess with their mouths". If Jesus were to reject them, it would be logical to assume that they did not also "believe in their hearts".
In other words, we have come around again to the subject at the beginning of this thread: hypocrisy. If those hypocrites referred to in Matthew 7 were sincere in their final plea to Jesus, then it probably means they were self-deluded all along, believing one thing and saying another, but believing that they were actually believing and saying the same thing at the same time.
The insight that I gleaned from this comparison of the passages in Romans and Matthew is that hypocrisy provides an avenue for self-delusion, which becomes an obstacle for salvation; thinking all is hunky-dory when really, "the ax is already at the root of the trees". |
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Sponsor | | Ewtn2000 | Sep 24, 2007 8:08am | If that is the case, then all belief is up for grabs. Who knows if what I believe, if what you believe, or anyone believes is really the real belief.... This seems like a catch all phrase I always hear. If someone says he is saved, but falls away from Christ, then he was never saved. Now it's you may think you are saved and do things you think that God is asking you, but you never really know if you are... hmmm. So not just proclaiming that Jesus is Lord is good enough. That must include people who say the "Sinner's Prayer".
I really think that in Matthew is talking about people who are following the false prophets and some will follow them and proclaim a certain aspect of the gospel, but something would be missing or not fully true. These disciples can still perform works of healing and exorcism in the name of Jesus (Lord) but not live to the true word of God. They will hear the word and still follow others. "Entrance into the kingdom is only for those who do the will of the Father. On the day of judgment (on that day) the morally corrupt prophets and miracle workers will be rejected by Jesus." |
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Apologetics → Discussion