|  fireforchrist | Sep 6, 2007 7:02pm | | d4m14n ~ I was wrong about understanding scripture, that was pride. 72 ~ The goal of interpretation is to get to the original intent, something that does exist. The only proper control for hermeneutics is the original intent of the author. You are right, a believer can interpret however he/she wants to, but that does not make it the correct interpretation - it may actually be contrary to what the author was trying to say. The Holy spirit will not 'guide' to incorrect interpretation, this kind of "holy spirit" is a figment of the imagination. |
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Sponsor |  lesoldham | Sep 7, 2007 9:15am | | 81 Yes fireforchrist if we are posting in debate with atheists we (this includes me) are in a position of pride because we want to WIN the debate. I have noticed the Holy Spirit (which the world and d4m14n cannot perceive) urging me not to argue because arguing here is of the flesh and draws away from the Spirit. That leads to less peace which comes from the Spirit. D4 thinks the Holy Spirit is a figment of our imagination and from his point of view he is correct. Without a personal experience He has no reason to believe. This kind (of unbelief) comes out only by prayer. |
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 |  438731 | Sep 7, 2007 9:43am | It's not about winning anything for me. It's just about understanding points of view.
I see nothing wrong with fireforchrist's pride, and nor should he. Many theists manifest far worse emotions when discussing issues of faith with a non-believer. I actually salute fireforchrist's tolerance and willingness to debate!
And Les, I don't trivialise your perception of the holy spirit by considering it a mere figment of your imagination. I make no claims to understand how you feel and interpret your connection with this 'entity'. I would however postulate that it could be explained in terms of neuroscience and psychology, without a need to refer to the supernatural. I also suspect that only a minority of Christians feel any 'physical' connection to this holy spirit, but I doubt that there are any reliable statistics in this area. |
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Sponsor | | lesoldham | Sep 7, 2007 12:47pm | I may have incorrectly equated fireforchrist's reason for noticing pride with my own reason. He appears to be apologetic about a remark he made in post 70 which may have had a tone he did not wish to project. This sensitivity is from the Holy Spirit, not in a condemning way, but in an ability to see ones motives clearly.
While it is true that a minority of Christians feel a physical connection to the Holy Spirit it is also true that a minority feel any connection to the Holy Spirit. However those who "experience" the Holy Spirit do so in a variety of ways. Many would never describe their feelings as a physical sensation but rather as an emotional experience. However, many do feel a physical sensation and though they are a minority they are in the millions at least. No meditative technique is required nor self hypnosis nor "working into it" nor group dynamic.
Most who experience the Holy Spirit would have a "Ghost in the Machine" philosophy if they thought about it. Most don't think about it. However those who do would not accept the idea that our experiences can be reduced to nothing more than chemical and electrical phenomena (ie. neuroscience).
Psychology is in every doctrine from Richard Dawkins to Billy Graham. |
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| | fireforchrist | Sep 11, 2007 5:33pm | d4m14n: I do not want to be accusatory, but just let you know it does not appear to me that you really want to understand other points of view? I do not get that feeling but I may be wrong. In anticipation of your response I will say that looking from your point of view very few of us appear to want to understand the other persons point of view ether.
My problem is not so much wanting to win, but not knowing how to express things in a way that is good. |
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| | 438731 | Sep 12, 2007 9:27am | 86 - Well you're obviously not properly tuned into your holy spirit guide. :)
I think you must be confusing 'understanding' with 'believing'. There's absolutely no chance that I'd convert if that's what you're thinking? I make no secret of the fact that I consider all/most religions to be based on fiction. It doesn't stop me being interested in them though. The phenomenon of religious belief is something that particularly intrigues me. That's why I take part in these discussions. |
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Sponsor | | lesoldham | Sep 14, 2007 4:53pm | From the following definition (Websters) I agree with fireforchrist that you have not demonstrated an inclination for "understanding" different points of view.
Main Entry: un·der·stand
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): un·der·stood /-'stud/; -stand·ing
transitive verb
1 a : to grasp the meaning of b : to grasp the reasonableness of c : to have thorough or technical acquaintance with or expertness in the practice of d : to be thoroughly familiar with the character and propensities of
2 : regard as plausible without utter certainty
3 : to interpret in one of a number of possible ways
intransitive verb
1 : to have understanding : have the power of comprehension
2 : to achieve a grasp of the nature, significance, or explanation of something
4 : to show a sympathetic or tolerant attitude toward something |
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| | 438731 | Sep 22, 2007 12:22pm | Sorry for the delay in responding, but I've been away, sunning it up in España.
Les, I grasp the meaning of, and I aspire to acquire a more thorough technical acquaintance with your belief. I struggle to accept it as plausible, with or without any certainty, but it would be cheap to state that therefore I cannot understand your point of view. |
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