Sponsor |  usmjam | Dec 22, 2006 1:36pm | The celebration date was chosen to coincide with the pagan feasts. 'What has light to do with darkenes?' The old testament has loads of instances where God punished severely for mixing paganism with worship. Right from the time of Cain! His offerings were maybe well intentioned, but utterly rejected. The "strange fire" that the sons of Aaron tried to offer got them zapped directly by God. Etc.
Yes, we have liberty in Christ. But not all things edify though they're permitted.
Look at the fruits of this pagan themed celebration. The sacrifice of Jesus is forgotten and it becomes a selfish time of getting gifts, or getting credit for buying just the right material offering for loved ones. Whats that teach? That "greed is good"?
The true light is not dispelling the darkness. The light of the gospel is being put aside, supposedly for the sake of celebrating the incarnation. But just see how the holiday is played out by the masses, is that the light of the gospel at work?
All that having been said, we here do remember that the holiday is meant by us believers to commemorate the miracle of the incarnation. Sadly, its been turned into something else by the general population. But knowing we are all believers here, I wish a blessed holiday to my Christian brothers and sisters. |
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Sponsor | | Ewtn2000 | Dec 22, 2006 6:08pm | True my friend, it was not a coincidence that the feast of the Nativity. Where there is darkness means there is no light. And if a feast of the Church brings lightness to this world, then darkness will fade. Agree, that the OT does show God's punishment for mixing paganism, yet Moses taught that no pillars should be erected, and he himself erected some, so you should read the full context of what is happening in those instances of the OT. A blanket statement like the one you gave us cuts both ways.
I also agreee that the celebration of the Feast of the Nativity is no longer what it was. For 1000 years from 400 AD to the 1500's, this was a holy feast that is nothing like what we see the secular and some Christians world have. Yet I will tell you that it is not because they took the Christ out of Christmas, it is because the Mass was taken out of the feast. The Church never forgot what our Saviour has done. In fact that is why we have the feast day, preceded by time of preparation (Advent). This my friend happened after the Reformation. The sect that broke away took with it the item it saw and liked from the Church and said nothing else was needed. They removed the litugy and the Mass from this beautiful feast. It is not surprising to see that where Protestants are the majority, we have what you have discribed..."fruits of this pagan themed celebration. The sacrifice of Jesus is forgotten and it becomes a selfish time of getting gifts, or getting credit for buying just the right material offering for loved ones. Whats that teach? That "greed is good"?". Like it or not, this is what you find when you see the history of all the events that has led to this celebration. The Church holds fast to the teachings of Christ and the celebration of the Nativity. Nowhere do I find the Church behind this selfishness... In fact, you hear the opposit. The darkness my friend is creeping in when the original meaning of the Church and the Mass was removed from it. The Gospel is being proclaime thoughout the Church. So don't blame this on the Church, look in the mirror for this one. |
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| | | lizzy | Dec 22, 2006 8:18pm | Could you show me where they celebrate birthdays in the bible Ewtn2000?
I agree christmas is a very commercial time..and brings a lot of stress to poor families..Jesus would not aprove of this for the sake of him. |
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Sponsor | | Ewtn2000 | Dec 22, 2006 8:50pm | Please read my other post. I have three chapters listed. Can you show me where it says in the Bible that we, as Christians, can only do what is written and nothing else?
I do agree that the secular world has taken advantage on this feast, Yet it is not the fault of the Church.
BYW, if you are calling yourself "Christian", tell me where in the Bible does it tells us to do so. After all, all that we do should be in the Bible, right?
Is anyone here wearing a wedding ring? Isn't the history of a finger band also full of pagan roots? Yet most married couples, those married in Christ, wear a wedding ring.
Merry Christmas to all!!! |
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|  |  634055 | Dec 24, 2006 2:30pm | Matt 22
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[b] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[c] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Note: 39. Because we love our neighbour as ourselves, we can show it by providing them gifts - whether monetary or non-monetary.
Like many people have said - Christmas is all about giving not receiving. It is interesting to hear that because in Deut 15:10 it says this
10 Give generously to him and do so without a grudging heart; then because of this the LORD your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you put your hand to.
Christmas is especially an opportunity for us to show Christ's love for our fellow man in gifts. You dont have to buy something big, or you dont have to buy something at all. Just show your appreciation whoever they are.
Remembering Matt 5:43-45
43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies[i] and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
In this respect to Christmas, we should give gifts to our enemies as well as our friends as possible. After all, isnt that what makes us different as Christians? The ability to love those who hate us? I dont think many of us would readily think of giving gifts to our enemies as we do friends. Though giving gifts to our enemies would, as Jesus says seperate us from pagan culture.
So essentially, if you are concerned about being like the pagans, why not try to give to your enemies as well as your friends? That is Jesus wants us to be like. GMO (and others) i hope this helps.
Considering it is December 25 here in Aus, I will say a Merry Christmas to you all. |
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Sponsor | | usmjam | Dec 20, 2007 10:20am | Just do a general self-study of eschatology as well as the directive from God to not mix our worship with that of the heathen. There is absolutely no reason to incorporate pagan & satanic worship into our faith. Do we really need the customs of ancient Rome's Saturnalia, gift giving and all? We reduce the Light of God's salvation by comparing it to the ancient worship of the Solis Invicti, Mithras, et. al. and believe God will be pleased?
The one-world religion is fast approaching. Its roots are in place. By having Christians adhere to ancient customs of worshiping the creation rather than the creator, we denigrate the one true God. By having each succeeding generation accept the practices of mystery religions, the acceptance of the New Age heresies will be easier for our progeny.
Someday there will come a religion that incorporates a little of all "faiths". Yet it will seek to destroy those radical & fundamentalist extremeists who have outmoded ideas such as Jesus being the one and the only Way to God, the Truth and the Life. When that day comes, the foundation that anti-christ will have built his religious power-base on will have been aided by past and current incorporation of pagan rituals and observances into our Christian way of life.
I thank God for the incarnation, the sacrifice on the cross, and the resurrection. But we don't need paganism to help us give thanks or to worship God. Keep vigilant and use discernment, my fellow Christians. |
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Sponsor | | Ewtn2000 | Dec 21, 2007 6:24am | | You have a shallow view on Christianity. With God and in God, all can be made for His Will. You speak of a sterilized version of some man-made Christian belief, and God knows that we are His people. As for the day that will come that incorporates all faith, that day may already be hear, yet if you following the teachings of Christ, how can one say this new religion is from God? |
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|  eat | Dec 21, 2007 3:32pm | "Should Christians celebrate Christmas?"
Yes. |
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Sponsor | | lesoldham | Dec 21, 2007 4:21pm | 68 Good Answer
1Cr 10:25 Eat anything that is sold in the meat market without asking questions for conscience' sake;
1Cr 10:26 FOR THE EARTH IS THE LORD'S, AND ALL IT CONTAINS.
1Cr 10:27 If one of the unbelievers invites you and you want to go, eat anything
that is set before you without asking questions for conscience' sake.
1Cr 10:28 But if anyone says to you, "This is meat sacrificed to idols," do not
eat {it,} for the sake of the one who informed {you,} and for
conscience' sake;
1Cr 10:29 I mean not your own conscience, but the other {man's;} for why is my freedom judged by another's conscience?
1Cr 10:30 If I partake with thankfulness, why am I slandered concerning that for which I give thanks?
1Cr 10:31 Whether, then, you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
So if we decorate a tree with thankfulness toward God then as long as our conscience is clear concerning the matter we are not worshiping falsely. We have freedom in Christ to do all things and if decorating a tree and sharing gifts are done unto God this is not a pagan mixture in our worship. It's always a matter of the heart not a matter of the form of the worship. |
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Sponsor | | Ewtn2000 | Dec 31, 2007 5:51am | "God's Son did not disdain to become a baby. Although with the passing of the years he moved from infancy to maturity, and although with the triumph of his passion and resurrection all the actions of humility which he undertook for us were finished, still today's festival renews for us the holy childhood of Jesus born of the Virgin Mary. In adoring the birth of our Saviour, we find we are celebrating the commencement of our own life, for the birth of Christ is the source of life for Christian folk, and the birthday of the Head is the birthday of the body.
Every individual that is called has his own place, and all the sons of the Church are separated from one another by intervals of time. Nevertheless, just as the entire body of the faithful is born in the font of baptism, crucified with Christ in his passion, raised again in his resurrection, and placed at the Father's right hand in his ascension, so with Him are they born in this nativity.
For this is true of any believer in whatever part of the world, that once he is reborn in Christ he abandons the old paths of his original nature and passes into a new man by being reborn. He is no longer counted as part of his earthly father's stock but among the seed of the Saviour, who became the Son of man in order that we might have the power to be the sons of God.
For unless He came down to us in this humiliation, no one could reach his presence by any merits of his own....
...The birthday of the Lord is the birthday of peace: for thus says the Apostle, He is our peace, who made both one; because whether we are Jew or Gentile, through Him we have access in one Spirit to the Father."---Pope St Leo the Great |
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